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Does anyone know what agencies provide HR 218 training on who can carry? what firearms can be carried? how firearms must be carried under the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act? Etc....

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IN Arizona, DPS runs the program, but has certified certain CCW trainers to run the DPS qual course for LEOSA. You get your retired ID card, shoot the course, and send in to DPS to get the LEOSA permit. I'm a retired Fed, so it works for me.
Reply to Jerseyguy on July 10, 2009 at 12:29am

Having dealt with this Act before it became law, and having carried under LEOSA since retirement, please allow me to shed some light on this matter.

There are states that do not provide retired LEOs any training (for example, Wisconsin). In the State of Tennessee, the Department of Public Safety only retains training records for active LEOs within the state and will not provide P.O.S.T. certification cards for anyone retired except for TN State Troopers.

The law is clear at 18 U.S.C. 926B(c)(5), where it states to wit: "during the most recent 12-month period, has met, at the expense of the individual, the State's standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms." There is nothing in the law that uses the word "certification." This was obviously added by someone who does not understand the law, and serves to only confuse and frustrate others.

The operative language in the law is: "has met ... the State's standards for training and qualification for active law enforcement officers to carry firearms" I left out the "expense of the individual," since it adds nothing to this discussion, except that we retirees must foot the bill. The mere completion of this training with a police department satisfying the state's requirements is sufficient by law. This has to be in the state in which a person resides.

In the State of Tennessee, the initial year of reporting my training was weird. The State only maintains such records for retired State Troopers, and my Agency does not maintain any records, both for good reason - the cost associated with such administration and management of records could be rather high. However, I have the letter from the Police Department as to my completed training and a copy of my P.O.S.T. training records. I shrink the documents (4 in all) to 4x5 card size and laminate them. I carry these documents and my retirement credentials with me in the event that I carry my firearm, and especially in an easy access place on my person when visiting areas of the country where firearms cause disruption by its mere sight (for example, NY, NJ, MA, PA, WI, etc.). These documents are sufficient and satisfy the requirements of the law as cited above.

There has been discussion as to whether a retired LEO should carry a LEOSA badge. What is the purpose of this item? This is an important question. To me, the purpose is to let an approaching Police Officer, or other LEO, know that this person being approached may be a good guy (no one, and I mean no one here, would expect an LEO to let his/her guard down during such an approach, only to lighten-up a bit on the trigger), and upon placing the approached retiree in a position that provides safety to the LEO, to demand ID at this point.

We all understand that we are human (anyone disagree with this point?) and mistakes are made. We also understand that an Officer who overreacts can cause the death of another. When a firearm is seen, there is a possibility to being shot by accident and this is, invariably, more possible than not if the Officer is not trained as well as others. We can also admit that not all LEOs are trained equally, which is another topic and another problem.

For example, keep in mind that active LEOs with NYPD have been shot in the past, by accident. These Officers are believed to be well trained.

With this last scenario in mind, what can we do to lessen the possibility of an armed retired LEO being shot prematurely by an active LEO?

I don't know about the reader, but being shot by accident gives me little solace. Think about it for a moment. You have been an LEO for 20 to 30 years, you retire, and while carrying a firearm with you in one of the many dangerous cities in the USA, an active LEO sees what appears to be a firearm. This active LEO approaches you with gun drawn and screams at you to stop, and while you ask, "excuse me?" (such a question does happen) the officer (who is already nervous), shoots you. O'Yeah, this is going to make me feel better knowing that this was an accident.

In the alternative, while facing the active LEO the presence of what appears to be a badge is showing, and he or she eases their trigger finger from the trigger. This finger is not removed from the trigger, it is merely eased away.

Which scenario would you like to be part of here? This is where a LEOSA badge may help. However, my desire is that there be one type of badge that can be identified throughout the U.S. and only obtained by retired LEOs. This is no guarantee that this could not end-up in the hands of others. Keep in mind the person who was selling badges in Florida. One of these items was a centennial badge for the St. Louis Police Department, and the badge had not even been released when this crime was discovered.

This is a difficult issue, because you have people who believe that this is weird after a person retires. We all know how well a person is trained in our agency, but you may not be comforted if you knew about how other LEOs have been trained. They still have a difficult job, and I do not take this way from them, but the training may not be what some of us would think is adequate to prepare them for in more intense places.

Any other thoughts on this subject?
I agree on the retiree badge issue. As long as the state law does not prohibit a retiree from carrying a badge, I think carrying one that even says Retired LEO is a good idea so long as it has no gov't seals on it. The badge is just a way of saying please don't shoot me until you've seen my ID card.
Ooops! My message of June 30, 2010, stated in part: "The law is clear at 18 U.S.C. 926B(c)(5),..."

This citation should have been, "The law is clear at 18 U.S.C. 926C(c)(5),..."

The reason is that I was referring to retired LEOs, and Section 926C addresses the retired LEO, not those who are active (see 18 U.S.C. 926B).

My human side showed itself one more time.... :-)
JerseyGuy, any NRA Firearms Instructor or DCJS Va Firearms Instructor can certify you for your "Course of Fire" cert (3-7-15-25 yards & 50-60 rounds). Your parent agency/Fed / Police Dept must also verify your have honorably retired in "Good Graces," after 15 years of "service."

You must also get "your state's" CCW Permit (renewed each cycle) through the city circuit court to carry concealed.
The average is about $50, and state fingerprints, and references to verify. I'm retired US Secret Service/UD (with a LEO), and some of our officers are having difficulties due to the policies.

Email me @ dep403@lycos.com and I'll be happy to send you some NRA-DCJS Va info.
Attachments:
In response to Daniel Price:

I agree with you when you stated:
"Your parent agency/Fed / Police Dept must also verify your have honorably retired in "Good Graces," after 15 years of "service."

However, I must vehemently disagree with your statement:
You must also get "your state's" CCW Permit (renewed each cycle) through the city circuit court to carry concealed."

This is the crux of LEOSA, no permit is needed in the stated that you are in or visit. As a retired Federal Officer, I qualify through a local Police Department every year and I receive my P.O.S.T. materials and cover letter from the #2 LEO in charge at that department. I copy these documents at a decreased size to 4x5, and I carry these documents with me when I carry my firearm outside my state. Of course, I have my agency issued credentials with me that indicates that I am a retired in good standing, the number of years of service, the position that I held, and that I was a Law Enforcement Officer. Nothing more is needed, according to the law.

If the State wanted to know who they had, as far as qualified Federal LEOs in their State (my state does not handle any retired LEO, except those who are retired under the State retirement system), I would have no problem with this. The foundation of LEOSA was to allow additional experienced law enforcement personnel to the ranks of those in the streets of the state being visited, or within the home state after retirement. Okay, this is where I have to stop, because I am not fully familiar with what Congress had in mind when they addressed this issue.

The bottom line is that a state law cannot attempt or actually circumvent federal law. Your statement above makes it clear that this is what is being done in the NJ. When visiting there, I am intolerant of states who fail to fall in-line with federal law, and there would be a problem. They need to follow the law, just like the rest of us. You, being retired SS, surprised me with this statement.

BTW, I disagree with you about the use of the LEOSA badge. There are some guidelines that have to be followed, but a State cannot outright forbid a retired LEO from having such a tool. Other than the mere compliance and spirit of the Federal law, this could actually be considered an act of expression.

The badge that I have specifically states that I am a "Retied Federal Officer," and has on it the LEOSA information (see http://www.epolicesupply.com/, see center of page near bottom). Having trained next to some young, aggressive, local LEOs in the past (and not those who I have been trained with for firearm re-qualification for the past couple of years), especially those in the Northeastern States, I would have to be a fool not to have something that said...., "Please see my credentials before you consider shooting me, thank you."

Do not get me wrong, if approached by a local LEO, I am as compliant as can be, first, because I know they have a job to do, and second, because I am not going to make their job any more difficult than it already is. After all, the quicker they clear me and get back to what they were doing, the greater the propensity that they will get a bad guy. However, there is nothing wrong with me letting them know that I am one of the good guys and not one of the bad guys.

As for the other badges offered here at ePolice Supply, I think that ones agency's policies address this quite well. In other words, one has to use their employer's issued badge. This was different to me, but what we are addressing here are "retired" LEO badges, and not active.
Spell check on retired and "Retirement" isn't what they said it would be. I do agree that not all states honor the CCW/LEOs/etc ID-badge... but should. I'm now going through the steps for Mass LTC (LicToCarry), then apply for the State F/A Instructor cert. What a legal mess, but more of a state money mess. I travel armed, but also with my weapon cased in the aircraft belly.
As a P/S Firearms Instructor, it's a little easier to declare at the air carrier or for TSA. My home state Va.'s CCW permit is all I need for my US Secret Service LEO (no badge) ID card only to carry in the US 50 states/5 territories. Most people today still don't know who the US Secret Service Uniformed Division is, let alone what they can/cannot do as a retired federal officer. The NRA LE F/A Instructor program is a great asset. I also have retired commission book with me as "backup."
TSA doesn't like the "no expiration" date on the ID, so they ask for a driver's license. Once clear of the airport, I can resume as concealed/or my protection role. As far as re-qualifying, I recert with my classes bi-weekly with their course of fire, just to C-Y Assets.

I really appreciate your thoughts and Happy Holidays. Sent email me some of those POST materials too (dep403@lycos.com).
LOL. Actually, it was in the use of the words, not the spell checker. This is the problem with being rushed. :-) Thanks for bringing this to my attention. Just as an FYI, when I tried to make some changes during the editing period, the system locked-up on me and then my changes never happened. Technology is our friend...?

You appear to be doing more than legally required. You should be able to pursue the instructor's certification without the state's permit to carry a firearm. Did you see the attachments that I sent to you? One was from the FOP and the other was the Bill signed into law by the President on October 3, 2010. I am attempting to make this available to you as an attachment here. I hope it works. This amendment is supposed to make it easier for you to carry, like any other retired LEO. If you did not get the attachments, please let me know and I will send them to you once more. You can also go to the White House citation: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c111:S.1132:

By the way, as retired LEOs without authority or official need to carry a firearm on an aircraft, we should always refrain from even thinking about this. We should never carry in an airport, and most definitely cannot carry a firearm on an aircraft (and I wouldn't want to). TSA never gives me a difficult time, as long as I keep the firearm in a hard shell case (I have a really nice one), and the ammunition in a different area of the luggage per TSA regulations, and the luggage is checked in at TSA. I always declare having it with me at the ticket counter, which is the first step. My credentials are enough for this part of the journey.

Have a great Holiday Season, stay safe, and enjoy life. Remember, you're retired and it sounds as though you are moving into a teaching mode..., which good. :-)
Attachments:
Follow this link: http://www.leaa.org/218/summary.html
Quick summary of the law..

    I'm a retired LEO (Municipal) from NJ, qualified w/ a retired ID card,  retired badge from agency.  I can carry in 49 states, but NOT NJ, the state I served and live in b/c I have to apply for a CCW from the NJSP--which they routinely deny the 1st time, and then you have to re-apply and repay a 2nd time before they approve you--and only good for 2 yrs... If anyone knows different re: NJ, please let me know.

Thanks.

Hi, Ron:

 

LEOSA was recently amended to make it easier, not more difficult, to carry a firearm if one had left an LEO position after 10-years (it used to be 15-years) in good standing, or retired in all 50-states regardless of state law. The only requirement is that the former LEOs have to successfully complete the same firearms training (per Commission or POST requirements) as active LEOs in the individual's state of residence on an annual basis. I complete my annual re-certification training through a Police Department in Tennessee, which is where I reside. In other words, the state cannot require any more than Federal Law requires. End of story.

 

I have no respect for a State that will try to circumvent a law by creating hurdles. The U.S. Supreme Court made their intolerance clear with its recent decisions addressing citizens ability to carry a firearm. Hah! I doubt that they (the USSC) would tolerate a state trying to circumvent the law as it pertains to us.

 

In short, the State of New Jersey should be ashamed of itself. As long as you successfully complete your annual training, the State cannot say a thing about you carrying in the State of NJ. They have no say..., no choice, and are legally bound by the law, just like any other citizen is bound by the law of their state.

 

The key, in your case, is the training. In Tennessee, the state recently attempted to make it mandatory for all eligible LEOs (former and present) to obtain an application from POST ($150 cost or something like that), that could not be sent by U.S. Mail, in order to undergo the training. Being a retired federal law enforcement officer I would not agree to such nonsense. They recently changed it to cover only state-wide eligible LEOs (state, county, local). Some police chiefs have refused to deal with this process (I cannot blame them - what a nightmare, but a money maker for the state), making it difficult for retirees to get the required training. I can foresee a federal cause-of-action in the very near future to stop this hurdle. There is little doubt that some states desire to challenge this law, but the U.S. Constitution allows the federal legislature to address and promulgate laws governing such issues, which makes the states non-compliant if they attempt to circumvent this process.

 

Our rights, and I do mean our rights, as provided by Congress, need to be fought for with all due diligence. Anything less would be the personal surrender of these rights, and others may needlessly be made to suffer as a result of a perception, rather than legal sanction, and this should never be allowed.

 

Last, but not least, my credentials provide me with no right to carry a firearm without the annual training required by law. You may have all the pieces (official ID and badge) to make this work for you, but to activate this process you will need to complete the annual training. Once the annual training has been successfully completed, then you will have the legal right to carry in 50 states, not just 49 states.

 

An important caveat here are the restrictions where you can carry your firearm within each state after qualifying under LEOSA. For example, many states do not allow a person to carry a firearm in a bar, but some do. I think all states prohibit the carrying of a firearm in a government office building (only criminals can do this, since they could care less about these laws). In other words, know your restrictions within these rights. This is not the same as when we were active. You will not have the right to carry the firearm anywhere you desire, since there are restrictions. The only sign that confuses me is when a private business has a sign posted, showing a handgun with a circle and a slash through it, with the words "except law enforcement." This can have many interpretations. If the intention is to only allow "active" law enforcement, then it should include the word "active." The reason for the confusion is that an owner may not want just anyone carrying a firearm, but active and retired LEOs under LEOSA may be welcomed. Who knows? I left my crystal ball in my last job. I am not good at guessing games. Good grief! This may need to be resolved through legislation in the future. My rule is, when in doubt, don't carry it. Of course, you may develop your own rule in this regard.

 

Hopefully, this information will assist you in being better prepared, and better prepare you for the future.

 

All the best ....

 

 

I agree not to carry where in doubt.  My bank put up the sign you describe, so I telephoned them to ask if they meant it to apply to off-duty and retired LEOs.  They had no idea it was an issue and subsequently took down the sign.

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